What is it with Indian-Americans joining the ranks of conservative bigots? Here's another one to the fray. Ramesh Ponnuru writes a book, provocatively titled "The Party of Death: The Democrats, the Media, the Courts, and the Disregard for Human Life". For added effect, it even has a quote from Ann Coulter on the cover. Wow. I'm really impressed. Makes me want to rush out and buy it. Puke.
I'm trying to understand this phenomenon of people of Indian descent, such as Dinesh D'Souza, Bobby Jindal, Raj Bhakta and now Ramesh Ponnuru, joining the ranks of conservative idealogues. I've always cherished the belief that Indian values - specifically Hindu values - and by Hindu I don't mean the mosque-demolishing, saffron-wearing fundamentalist flavor - I mean the organic, harmonious traditions that evolved in the sub-continent over thousands of years - always espoused liberal social values and a balanced view of economics & statehood. Why then, do children of such a culture, raised in a foreign land grow up to be so conservative? Is there a deep rooted psychological need to overcompensate for their brownness and fit in?
Let's take the case of Bobby Jindal. Growing up in racially tense Louisiana, Bobby chose to "fit in" by converting to Christianity. Unfortunaltey, that didn't turn him white a la Michael Jackson so during high school he converted to Catholicism - an even more conservative flavor of religion. Today, Bobby is probably as desi as Michael Jackson is black. I cringe every time I see an Indian diasporic organization fete him.
Everyone's entitled to their opinons and beliefs. However, I find it unnerving that there is such an overwhelming tilt towards conservatism amongst Indian-Americans. Where are the voices on the other side of the camp?
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18 comments:
Interesting viewpoint. I have never considered it that way before. Thank you.
I cannot believe I am about to suggest a defense of Bobby Jindal, but, in Bobby's defense, maybe he liked Catholicism. He was living in south Louisiana. Catholicism is so integrally tied to almost all of the culture. I don't know him personally, but he seems highly assimilated (that's neither a good nor bad thing). I might be wrong, but I have suspicions he'll toss his hat back into the ring in the next gubenatorial race. He lost to Blanco, but she got such bad press after Katrina (and he got good press and had his face all over national television at the same time). It seems like a wise political move for him.
I'll admit that I didn't vote for Jindal. It felt weird voting for Blanco, but I would have felt like a traitor voting for Jindal due to his very conservative values and open opposition to advances in women's reproductive rights and health.
So, I did manage to wrap my comment back around to your post. Yep, ultra conservative. Not for me.
Yeah where are all the Pravasi Bharatiya liberals? Have they all fled under the cover of darkness to Canada?? :)
autogato: true - being highly assimilated could be good or bad - I think the jury's still out on that one. Jindal makes a good example cause his views are very Christian fundamentalist.
manu: I guess so. Now if only the Canadian Liberal party could elect a strong leader and pull themselves out of the bog.
I bet if you can understand why Cubans in Miami, a community which is disenfranchised from mainstream America, yet remain staucnhly republican out of moral opposition to Cuba, they you may begin to udnerstand this new wave of republican desis.
Definitely. And I am not comfortable supporting anyone that conservative into political office. Particularly someone who doesn't support women's reproductive rights. No patriarchal oppression for me, thank you.
Andy's life in India: Interesting viewpoint!
You do realize that India has more than its fair share of conservatives? To be honest these are people who cant see the obvious - Some of these conservatives are because they are blind to the origins of the true / original 1000s of years old culture Indians evolve from and there are others who twist and turn the culture to a conservative side in order to create new political upheavals that they can leverage.
Let's take example of Shiv-Sena in Maharashtra and their reaction to Mira Nair's movie Fire - a movie about how two housewives (married to two brothers) get emotionally and physically involved due to lack of physical and emotional affection from their respective husbands. I watched news interviews with the women's section of Shiv Sena that created the violence against the movie - in their view, the movie did not portray what's truly Indian culture. HA!!! Oh well you know where I'm going with that.
But the point is, India has a huge reservoir of bigots and some have migrated to the US.
Now, if your concern is bigots - you now know why. But if your concern is republicans, then lets be fair - Indians love Repubs - they were all for business (most wealthy Indians in US tend to be businessmen) and pro-outsourcing while Dems rallied during elections against it. Now Repubs are giving India the sweet Nuclear deal while Dems in the house are trying to push the other way. Now you combine the two aspects - Indian Republican Bigots. Hope its adds up for you.
Speaking from experience, not being Catholic in southern Louisiana is quite difficult. It is just so freakin' ingrained into every aspect of society and culture here. Growing up, I went with friends to church a few times, and some asked if I wanted to convert. The pressures to conform in this way are quite compelling and quite real.
Now, I don't know if I support Jindal's conversion or his politics. I actually voted for him for governor despite being a liberal democrat because I just felt I couldn't trust Blanco (and after Katrina I feel I was right). I take issue with a lot of his ideas, especially his views on reproductive rights and on kids with behavior problems (he says kick them out of schools, I say get them some help).
One thing is true, though, I know quite a few folks who say they would never have voted for him if he weren't Catholic. Did he sell his soul for a political career? Perhaps.
Hopefully his conversion was for faith reasons. I believe he's been Catholic for quite some time. Am I incorrect?
Yes, our last election felt a lot like that episode of South Park where they choose between a douche bag and a terd sandwich.
Autogato, you are right - he's been Cat'lick for a long time. I have just always wondered what the true motivation was.
Did we get the douche bag or the turd sandwich?
I'm not sure. I think we got the travesty of a Katrina response. But possibly there is a PETA revolt coming soon.
You know, Jindal SLAYED Blanco in the debates. He is an incredibly polished public speaker whereas Blanco's public speaking skills are no so polished. She stumbles frequently, kind of like George Bush does when he does speaking. I think she's a bright woman; however, she had some trouble articulating that in the debates.
I'm sure Ameet is loving this Jindal talk on his blog. :P
Jindal's just a convenient scapegoat, knowing that at least two of my blog readers are from Louisiana ;)
Hey Ameet,
Interesting post. I have felt the same sense of nervousness, while watching Muslims in the Shiv Sena, or Arabs in Jean-Marie Le Pen's National Front, or as you rightly pointed out, Bobby Jindal. But then the world is a very complex place, and who am I to judge?
But you are right, a perplexity, a discomfort is very much there.
You sire are talking to an American of Indian origin who happens to be liberal. That being said, I don't get the desi conservatives you talked about. Maybe it's about self pity?
Ameet,
It's another (liberal) Louisianian wading in to tell you what he thinks about Jindal, conservatism, and the cultural millieu . . .
OK . . . This post sparks a lot of ideas and I really don't have time to address many of them.
For one thing, most of the people of Indian origin I've met in Louisiana were socially conservative Hindus. Perhaps this socially conservative part of the country is more attractive to socially conservative Hindus, whereas more liberal areas like Canada and American Northeast are more attractive to already liberal Indians. Or perhaps you were raised in the area of Canada or the Northeastern U. S. and simply became liberal as a process of cultural assimilation. I got the distinct impression that many of the Indian parents around here (Louisiana) considered much of our culture to be abjectly horrible, though. Either it was backwards to them or it was entirely too permissive. Or perhaps most often, both at once. (The South is like that . . .)
Further, you may have no idea how alienating it would be to Hindu in the "dirty" South!!! I haven't known many people with Indian parents down here who actually identified with Hinduism as adults. (They very often become secular, but rarely care much for the faith that they were born into.) There are very few opportunities to practice Hinduism outside the home in South Louisiana (that's changed some recently, but rather recently indeed!). The temples are small and there are no full-time clergy or monastics, so far as I know. This probably means that young "Bobby" Jindal had little knowledge or experience of his native faith, outside of prayer and ritual with his parents.
This is the exact opposite of the experience of young, local Christians, who are very often part of vigorously vibrant congregations led by knowledgable, talented ministers steeped in the traditions and appologetics of their Christian faith. Christians in conservative churches (whether Protestant or Catholic) tend to get trained as little missionaries, complete with compelling and emotional rhetoric, from quite a young age. The South may lack many things, but we have an abundance of people who can articulate their faith with theological depth and complexity normally only seen in universities that specialize in this sort of thing.
Almost all the Indians I've known here came because their parents took either an engineering job at a local chemical plant or a science or technology teaching position at a local school or university. In my experience, technical people have very little religious sophistication, even if they themselves are religious. They have rarely studied their own traditions deeply and they are in no position to convey those traditions worth a darn. Hinduism can seem intensely alien to kids raised by such parents. It's a religion that (traditionally interpretted) you have to be born into. There's no idea that other people should convert to it. So, young Indians very rarely invite their friends to Hindu ceremonies (which are never performed in English, anyway), and in fact, may feel (or have been explicitly told) that that would be inappropriate. But they will receive frequent invitations to attend Christian churches from many young friends!
I suspect that a young, intelligent "Bobby" (he chose that nickname for himself very young, clearly disliking the way his name made him stand our early on) had no access to compelling, developed Hindu thought and was bombarded by politie, frequent, intense, and sympathetic discussions on religion, often accompanied by the smiles of very pretty girls and the fellowship of friendly boys. I suspect that he felt enticed by the tradition that might have seemed more inviting and inclusive (Christianity) rather than alien, old-fashioned, anachronistic, austere, and exclusive (Hinduism). If his parents were socially conservative at all, it's not very difficult in the least to see how Bobby got where he is.
There's a further fact you may want to consider. I know where Bobby came from around here. I can't imagine what being raised Indian around here was like, but I do know what Baton Rouge is like. Bobby graduated from a local academic magnet high school in 1989. I graduated from one in 1994. He speaks with the twerpy, meandering, congenial accent that people who graduated from Magnet schools in Baton Rouge in the '90s tend to have. (It's very local. I can't entirely explain it, even to non-Baton Rouge Louisianians.) He's part of the local faith, the local politics, and the local morality. He's got a self-effacing sense of humour. He's extremely polite. He's really a product of this place. Let me tell you about this a bit . . .
People who become sophisticated, educated, moral, consistent, intelligent liberals in Louisiana . . . They leave! They get up and go and don't visit often. They go to Austin, TX or New York or Los Angeles or Atlanta or Chicago or Michigan and they don't come back. The liberals who are left tend to be *ahem* left-overs. They are less successful, less intelligent, and less sophisticated, as a general rule. They are more likely to lead a very odd or off-putting lifestyle. "Liberal" politics are associated with permissiveness and immorality around here, in a big way. It's presumed people become liberals because they want to screw sheep or smoke weed. It's also presumed that liberals want the right to do this in front of your children while masturbating.
And though that's all clearly hyperbole, there's an unfortunate corollary. A lot of self-avowed "liberals" around here bolster the stereotype! They are irresponsible, chaotic people. They don't put concern for responsible social policy, ecological soundness, and feminism ahead of gettin' high, gettin' laid, and speaking their twisted minds. The rest of the liberals around here tend to be young (haven't had a chance to leave yet) and have the faults of the young. Sooooo, it's pretty easy to look around and see that the conservatives seem more stable, respectable, and sane if you're in this place! Besides, half of the "liberals" I mentioned above realize that they don't care about social policy after a while and start calling themselves "libertarians," thus becoming socially liberal conservatives. (We've got plenty of those!) Those mostly likely to care about social policy have generally fallen on hard times themselves, so they feed back into the "less successful" perception. Anyway, I don't think that Bobby had any chances to meet some good, liberal "role models" around here, to say the least!!!
Anyway, I hope I've said enough to give you some food for thought. I only became liberal here because I felt very alienated from Catholicism, and in part, because I was raised "on the wrong side of the tracks" (we didn't have much extra money) and felt like an alien. It was probably the exact opposite of Bobby's childhood: he felt like he "joined the club" and became less of an alien, whereas I felt pushed out and became more of one. (And in the process, investigated Eastern religion and went in a very different theological direction, too.)
In short, I think the emphasis of traditional Indian culture on traditional values combines well with the Fundie Christian emphasis on a similar vision of traditional values much more often than the liberal, accepting, mystical path within Hinduism (Ramakrishna, Gandhi) meshes with the socially conscious and behaviorally liberal part of our culture. I think that's because the liberal Indian culture is still religious and more socially conservative whereas liberal American culture is often virulently secular and on the cutting edge of "responsible permissiveness." Perhaps this is changing on both counts (Americans are creeping back from the worst '60s and '70s irresponsibilities (while maintaining many of the solid values developed and expressed first at that time); Indians seem to be slowly more accepting of more permissive mores as they're exposed to Western influence) and will lead to less of a "liberal gap" in the future!!!!
wild reeds: There are Muslims in the Shiv Sena? I wonder what Balasaheb would have to say about that.
jay: yes - surely you're one of the vocal few.
fondfire: that must take the record for the longest comment ever on blogger ;) After autogato's first comment, I reflected on how religion pervades all aspects of life in some places. I've been on my own too long to remember this. Your perspective on Bobby certainly makes sense.
Permissive liberals, by definition, are more willing to coexist with other ideologies (as opposed to conservatives who believe in only one right way). Perhaps this causes them to lay silent unless provoked. Indian-born Urvashi Vaid, for example, led the NGLTF for many years. There's an outspoken desi liberal.
Ameet,
As autogato can probably atest, I do have a tendency to go on and on a bit . . . :-7
Yeah, I think it must be (quite pleasantly!) easy for forget how all-pervasive religion can be in many places when you are no longer in such a place! I often find it a little bizarre when I visit such places how private and unobtrusive religion can be . . .
Anyway, I think what you're saying about liberals being more relaxed unless provoked is probably true! But thankfully, provoked we can be . . .
I know exactly what you mean...I can't stand the Axis of Evil (Ponnuru, D'Souza and Jindal).
If I had to pick, I'd pick Jindal as the worst of the lot. He got away with saying such shit about Hinduism and Indians and the "India Abroad" crew won't even print any of it!
Bobby is just an opportunist, for all you know he is a Hindu incognito. Once a Hindu, always a Hindu, the psyche is hard to change.
But that is a good point. I do wonder about these red souls gone astray, whats up with them? Trying to fit in? Trying to flaunt the new found wealth? It is so hard to see some of my friends go down that path - and there is nothing truly that justifies it.
The environment has a huge influence, the media of the city you live in convolutes views.
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